Choices
But today as I was reading 1 John 3:8 we see that Jesus was “manifested to destroy the works of the devil.” Now if we believe Jesus accomplished what he came to do, which I do whole heartedly, then how can it be that the battle is still between Jesus and the devil? How could the church leaders that were supposed to be teaching us tell us that we had to choose between Jesus and the devil? This of course placed a tremendous burden on all of us because each time we would do something the “church” said we should not be doing we immediately assumed we had chosen to follow the devil on that particular day. On other days when we thought we were doing good, we assumed we had chosen to follow Jesus instead of the devil.
When I look back at some of these teachings it almost makes me angry to think I even for one minute thought these teachers knew what they were talking about. How can I for one minute think that I still have to choose between Jesus and the devil in my everyday living? I suppose I still can in my mind if I believe that Jesus did not accomplish what He came on earth to do. There is no doubt my mind can still feel alienated from God but that is exactly what it says, it is only in our minds that we feel alienated and think we may be following the devil instead of Jesus. It is impossible to be alienated from Jesus regardless of what we may do or think.
So what is this battle we are supposed to be fighting? Is it because we have chosen to follow the devil instead of following Jesus? Or is this our minds telling us another lie because of the indoctrination we have received over the years by listening to the preachers that are preaching a false system that they call the Gospel? I believe it is the latter. It is not an easy thing to try and move away from years of indoctrination because our minds are easily influenced by what we have heard “pounded” into our heads for years and years. However, easy or not, it is something we must move away from because it is not the Truth of the Gospel. To move away from a stand we have taken and stayed with it for years and years is not easy but I believe it is extremely important to do so when Truth begins to be revealed to our hearts.
To remain in or return to a system that we now know to be false can only bring more bondage. The Truth is geared to make us free so anything that brings bondage cannot be Truth. The Gospel of grace and peace is something that frees us to see ourselves as God sees us and to quit trying to figure out God. I no longer try and figure out how God operates but now see myself as God sees me, which is in Christ. I am also learning to look at others in the same light because God sees the entire human race in His Son.
I am not sure if I understand what or who or where this “devil” is or how he/it operates in this present world. I somehow lean towards believing that it is mainly our minds that control our daily choices, whether they are good ones or bad ones. I am not sure I can blame an external force that tells me if I am to choose to follow Jesus or follow the devil on any given day. I believe our choices are made totally by ourselves and it is not a matter of whom we will follow or fall prey to, but a matter of what choices we will make in this life.
The choices we make while we live here on earth are very important because when we make bad ones, there are consequences to these choices. Can I blame the devil for these choices I make? I somehow feel that is trying to place the blame on something or someone else when in fact it is our own choices we make with our own minds. It is very easy for us to try and lay blame on someone else for the misfortunes we may be experiencing but when it comes right down to it, we are responsible for our own actions here on earth.
When the question arises as to whether we can make a “choice” of going to heaven or hell I think if you have read some of the posts on this site, you will know that I believe that this has nothing to do with our choices. The fact remains that Jesus redeemed the entire human race and our (all of humanity) destiny is already secured through the obedience and faith of Jesus Christ.
The question of whether the devil is real in this present world I suppose remains unanswered for me. A few of us have been discussing this over the past few days and weeks but can we come up with an answer that we know to be accurate? I think not. I suppose this is something that each one of us has to settle in our own minds as I doubt very much anyone has a true and reliable answer to the question.
One thing I am convinced of is that it is NOT the way the evangelical church has presented it to be and that is we chose whom we will follow and suffer the consequences, whether they be good or bad. I know that I do not choose to either follow the devil or Jesus and that the battle is between the two of them. Jesus destroyed “the works of the devil” which is a subject for another post at some point. The works of the devil are definitely not whether I go to bars, dance commit adultery or whatever else we may think it is. But whatever that work was, it was destroyed by Jesus at the cross. He redeemed mankind from that “work” and we are now free from the clutches of whatever that was.
Roy, that was great!
IMHO very well presented and thought through.
A few of my own personal thoughts, hope you don’t mind my sharing these things
My own personal view is that the “devil”, or “Satan” or “adversary” that is in view in scripture is attached directly to the “old economy”.
In short, take away (in this case fulfill) the old economy “commands” and the “devil” has nothing left to tempt with.
In short then this “adversary” has no standing, no authority once the types and figures are fully fulfilled. But IMO had an authority under the precedence of types and figures. This is why IMO He was in the original “garden” “from the beginning”. In essence then the “father of lies”. So even if we think that “Satan” is still alive and well, it is presently only between our ears.
Also this adversary is very much attached to the “ego”. That being, people trying to define themselves for themselves. Establishing “image” and “identity” through performance. The “cross” was God defining people through his love and free gifts. The righteousness which was of the law is people trying to define themselves for themselves. Ego inflation really. Like thinking that God dwells in Temples made with hands. As if we can bring God close to us through our own construct.
The adversary tried to get Jesus to doubt his being the “son of God” by trying to get him to prove himself. That being “If you are the son of God”… then… prove it by doing this and that.
Love however is not attached to ego inflation. Love makes connections between people which is its own reward. Like saying “expecting nothing in return”. Such is possible when there is nothing left to prove and is its own reward and own treasure as God is the essence of love, which we see in His free gifts.
But, “expecting nothing in return” is impossible and also self condemning through the law which attaches itself to the ego.
So “Satan” worked through commands which did attach to the self defined “ego”. IMHO then the “works of the devil”. Cosmologically speaking then, Christ came to destroy the works of the devil. Atonement principally takes away the precedent of the self defined ego. In other words then, “I do not own myself for myself”. I am the Lord’s possession and am defined by him and through Him and not of my own construct.
This IMHO also touches on the issue of belief. All of the subjects interconnect. This is why IMHO, belief is so powerful. Not the kind of belief that is so often taught. But the one that takes confidence in one’s own ideas of self identity formation, and places the whole of the matter squarely in God’s hands. In this sense then one believes because it is not their own faith. In this sense one believes because they don’t have to.
If you have to believe then it is not a gift. True biblical, Jesus oriented faith is not a faith where one appeases the wrath of God by believing in Him. But rather an acceptance that God is love and that we are defined by Him and not of our own construct or performance.
So Christendom has over the last 1800 years or so focused on indoctrinating people with a type of “ego inflation”. Thus emulating the work of the law. Whereas grace and truth speak of “let go and let God” in the sense that we believe because we are finished trying to prove something, finished trying to establish our own identity. Leaving behind the law, we move forward in acceptance of His free gifts.
God defines His offspring, and not the offspring defining themselves for themselves.
God defines His own image.
Just a few of my own personal thoughts.
Blessings and Peace,
Barry
Good to have you share your views Barry. Great points you raise.
Roy
Very well put, but if such logic were to be embraced and accepted by organized religion, the preachers would be forced to seek employment. The fact is that many with whom (preachers that is) I have spoken with within the past 22 years, know these things to be true, but they have refused to preach it because there is money to be made and what better way to make easy money than to scare people with a devil, the law and the wrath of God?
dead2sin23
I agree with you 100% that they would have to find a job because their money would be gone. It is a sad situation but nonetheless a very real one. Good to see you comment today.
Roy
Just recently I propsed via e-mail to the religious freedom organization in Washington D.C. , that they should have a rating system for the distribution of religious material.
Example: “The material you will hear on this religious message contains subjects that can be dangerous to your mental well being. The message is rated “L” for legalistic.”
I don’t think they took me serious on the suggestion, but when Dobson makes a self-righteous suggestion about how the Marriot Hotels should ban “X” rated videos in their Hotels rooms, he gets answers.
Yet, when the “Promise Keepers” held their convention in Florida a few years ago, and about 60 thousand men were in attendance, the Hilton Hotel reported that over 50% of Christian men who had booked a room at the Hilton were found to have ordered “X” rated movies and charged it to their credit crads. Go figure!
Isn’t religion all about control? Men playing God and using out of context bible passages to profit them while putting others under constant fear and condemnation. If a Pat Robertson, Hagee, Hinn or a Rod Parsley were given the right and power to change our U.S. Constitution, they would be no better and do no better than what the Muslim religion does.
Once a person hands over their will to a legalistic institution, they actually sell out their soul and earthly free will. I look back at the many years that I was deceived to believe in a God that would bless me when I did right and cursed me when I did wrong, and I ask myself: “What was it that led me to be so brainwashed by these Christian religious men and women?”
Then, about 12 years later it hit me: “Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil seeks whom he may devour.” Then I asked myself: “Who really is the adversdary? Who really is the devil? What is it that he uses to devour people? Who is it that I needed to watchout for? What did I need to be sober about?” Well, I once got on the internet with a religious Christian group of about two thousand people and posted what I just quoted here, and when I said:
“Your adversary is none other than the law of Moses. The Christian legalistic pulpit is really the one out to devour (control) you. The real satan is the man made doctrines of men that will keep you from being sober, and want you to remain in a drunken state of religious ferment wine. We need to get off the cheap wine of religion and start drinking the new wine of God’s amazing Grace.”
Well, I let you to your imagination as to what the response was after I quoted the above on the particular site. Wordly profanity cannot compare to what hundreds of Christians called me and said about me, family and my so called Gospelf of Hell. They cut me off the site, like a child being circumcised. Religion is all about control and no one does a better psychological job than James Dobson and the rest of the religious elite in his class.
Organized CHRISTIAN FAITH religion is all about control and brainwashing. No different than a communist country.
dead2sin
you rock my world!!!
Attractive blog! I find myself back in your blog.